Council hosts virtual Remembrance Sunday commemoration

Or we could just go down to the remembrance gardens as normal, the government have said we are allowed to outside for Remembrance Sunday.

A virtual service is a good idea. Now that we are in a second lockdown, the public need to be encouraged to stay at home when they can. The most vulnerable need to be protected and they are more likely to want to attend.The recent rise in COVID cases is precisely because those that think they know better think they can do as they wish.

Quite right Derek. Putting the lives of others, especially the vulnerable, at increased risk by thinking you know better is no way to honour the fallen.

Thank god our Hero’s in the two world wars didn’t behave like this or we would be speaking German. Even the government have said it’s safe to go to these eves as by as you distance.

Run for the hills, someone just sneezed.

@Mark Russell

Yes, thank god they did carry on fighting and didn't throw in the towel like you want to happen. Instead they risked everything for 6 years at whatever cost to protect our vulnerable, while six months or wearing a face mask is too much for you to withstand.

Instead, you seem to think bravado will somehow overcome a virus that has killed more people in the UK in 8 months than the Luftwaffe did during their 2 year Blitz.

Regarding tomorrows events, The Royal British Legion say "We're calling on the public to unite in a distanced show of Remembrance this weekend by participating in remote ways to honour the Armed Forces community".

Councillor Farrall, Cheshire East's Armed Forces champion who says the same is also a veteran of Iraq and Northern Ireland. Therefore, I will listen to the advice of these real life warriors and not the keyboard ones like you.

@mark goldsmith. If we wear a mask to ensure we don’t get covid, but now we need to stay at home to not catch covid, what does that tell you about mask’s? It tells me they don’t work like we are being told. The mp’s don't wear one in Westminster. Does that tell you something?? It tells me they know something we don’t, or they don’t believe in the rules. Again, they can’t have it both ways.

I’ve got no issue what so ever with people wearing masks etc, we live in a democracy and that’s their choice.

The government can’t have it both ways. They have made them compulsory everywhere but people still catch covid?? I’m a realist, I read up on things. I’m in my mid 40’s and fairly fit. So even if I do get it I’m likely to have mild to non symptoms. And guess what? I’ve behaved sensible all year and I’ve not caught this super contagious illness (yet).

Maybe if we were given some actual data instead of bull non stop. We all know the covid numbers are fiddled and it’s well known a lot of cases are caught in a hospital or old folks home. I’ve been in hospitals this year, and still not caught this super contagious illness.

And as for protecting the NHS, they have had 9 months to prepare for this. I pay for the nhs, they should look after me. The union claim they are 40.000 nurses short!! Again bull.

1700 people a year die on our roads. Does that make people drive less? No of course it doesn’t, they mitigate the risk, but it’s always there. Just like covid. We need to mitigate not capitulate.

And as for not standing outside 2m metres apart to pay respect to our hero’s is a disgrace. They fought for us to have choices and I will make mine. Not someone from london who doesn’t even know where Wilmslow is. (Oh and the decision makers have all caught it!! Again, what does that tell you)

People need to wake up. Make their own sensible decisions, mitigate, and live their lives.

Well said Mark. I started out as a Registrar in London (St George's in Tooting) ...Former colleagues (2 who work on shifts almost as a tag team in ICU ) have been asked to sign nondisclosures re their unit and Covid . They believe the hospital is about 20% less busy than November/December last year. Those graphs presented by Vallance last week as an excuse to lockdown were fraudulent

Most people are capable making sensible decisions but some are clearly not, otherwise the virus would be in retreat by now. The virus is very real and just because you haven't caught it does not mean it doesn't exist. I haven't caught it either but I'm not taking any chances with my or family's health (Note correct use of the apostrophe)
Do the right thing to protect our elderly and vulnerable and stay at home.The more that do, the quicker we'll all be able to go back to some semblance of normality.

Of course masks 'work'. They greatly reduce covid transmission from someone who is infected to someone who is not. That they are not 100% effective in doing that is no reason to scoff at wearing one.

The virus is minute and in theory can pass through a mask like a mosquito through a chain-link fence, but the virus hasn't got legs or wings. It can't crawl under a mask or fly through one and up your nose. It is immobile. To get from one host to another, it requires a carrier.

That carrier is usually moisture, moisture which we all expel when we breath, and expel to a much greater extent when we talk. A mask which covers nose and mouth is a barrier to that moisture. Instead of dispersing into the air as droplets or as an aerosol, the moisture from an infected wearer complete with its viral load is constrained by the mask (so a used mask should be handled with great care). There is also some protection to a mask-wearing uninfected person by that same mechanism.

For the same reason, indoor shared spaces such as offices and shops are far safer with effective ventilation (open windows and doors to disperse the droplets / aerosols) This is basic stuff.

Yes, we see politicians in the Commons NOT wearing masks. They also travel by train after being tested positive for covid, and drive to Barnard Castle to 'test their eyesight' while covid-positive (OK that one wasn't a politician, but a No.10 'advisor', but none the less he avoided getting sacked and so led the weak minded to think it's OK for them to behave likewise). They behave like this not because they 'know something we don't', but because they are arrogant (Barnard Castle) and not too bright. They think they know better than the scientists. Mask wearing is mostly altruistic. Not to wear one when mixing with others, even at the recommended spacing, is selfish at best.

@mark russell

So why are all the countries around the world doing the same things as the UK?

Are they ALL being given duff advice by their scientists too? (I am ruling out that it's some global conspiracy that has secretly recruited and indoctrinated millions of health workers as being implausible fantasy).

We know from history what happens if we do nothing during a flu pandemic though. World War 1 killed 20 million people between 1914 and 1918. Then early in 1918 the Spanish Flu pandemic started. But people said "its only a cold", so did nothing. The second wave then hit in 1919 and year later a third of the world had got it and 50 million people had died.

Still, it was "only" flu.

They did try to contain it with mask wearing, closing shops and restaurants etc, but by then it was too little, too late. Unfortunately, we never learned the lessons from that time though. The war to end all wars, wasn't. Nor did we learn that during pandemics, measures that seem extreme at the time are regarded afterwards as being far too timid.

A quote from Ghandi sums up my thinking on this.

"The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members."

Unfortunately, many want a me, me, me society that doesn't give a toss about helping our vulnerable.

Not me though.

Mr Goldsmith the Tiers system was working. Boris was pushed into a Lockdown on out of date and massaged alarmist figures. This is no longer in dispute. Boris himself acknowledged it in the HoC earlier this week.

Simon Stevens wrote to all hospital administrators in early March that they must achieve the extra beds required via discharging and removing into the care home sector all those taking up long term beds. Without testing them for Covid. Most of those patients died along with many fellow care home residents. This is not in dispute. The NHS failed our vulnerable not society.

No one here is saying that they are not complying with sensible precautions what they are saying is that they do not agree with laying waste to the economy and millions of people's futures along with it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/explainers-53640249

I guess all the governments across Europe are getting duff scientific information too. Perhaps someone can explain to them why their lockdowns are not needed either.

My mother was in a care home from November 2019 until she died at age 94 of natural non-covid causes in July. At the height of the first covid wave she had a fall and broke her hip, so was taken into Macclesfield hospital where she was well looked after, her hip repaired, and some other minor medical matters sorted out.

Before being released from hospital (in no hurry - she was there for several weeks) she had to show a negative covid test, and on returning to the care home she was quarantined for two weeks in isolation just in case the test result had been a false negative. It wasn't.

She lived for a few months more in the care home finally succumbing to age-related natural causes as the hospital had warned us would probably be the case. Throughout our involvement with the care home we were kept well informed of the anti-covid measures they had in place, particularly regarding visiting arrangements and as a result they had no covid cases whatsoever in the home.

Perhaps we were lucky but our experience does not stack up with the scary scenario described above. The hospital and the care home could not have been more professional in dealing with my aged mother. I was even able to be with her at her peaceful passing in the home, suitably attired in PPE of course.

At the risk of also becoming a single-minded bore and endlessly repeating myself. Lockdown puts the virus in a bottle. You open the top and out it pops again. Meanwhile in this ever extended battle the lists of those that can, within the rules, go to work, enter our homes, care for the elderly and sick (and then return into the wider community !) gets longer and longer. This will not be the only virus to infect the planet in this way and I live in hope that governments will learn from the mistakes they have made.

@Kareem Masdoon: London is hardly the current epicentre of the Covid-outbreak in the UK this time. The experience of NHS personnel there is not going to be representative of the experience across the rest of England at this current time.

According to Government stats, in the North West region, however, there are almost exactly the same number of people in hospital with Covid now than there was at the April first peak.

In the North East and Yorkshire regions, there are more people in hospital with Covid now than there were at any time in April.

North-West might just be starting to peak, but without some of the measures it would surely have been exceeded significantly.

So Mark Goldsmith do you think it was acceptable for Whitty and Vallance to use their hysterical out of date modelling to bounce us into another lockdown? If you do pease let us know why you think their data was ok when the Govt. have now apologised for those erroneous models. It is quite dangerous and immature to believe everything you are told you know. And perhaps you personally have nothing to lose by having repeated lockdowns . Some could say I as a pensioner would not have anything to lose too (my house is paid for after all). However reality tells me that is not the case. By lockdown 3 or 4 ALL Apensioners will be at financial risk, the NHS (without it's tax receipts to keep it going) is at risk...these 2 dreadful doomongers Vallance and Whitty's finances ( unless they have a collection of solid gold bars ,) are at risk. I would go as far to say that even the Mark Goldsmiths of the world will not be immune from the financial cataclysm which will ensue.
Your comparison with Spanish flu is pathetic ( even the WHO have stated that Covid 19 is not nearly as dangerous a virus as the Spanish Flu) we are almost a year into this pandemic ....look at the figures. It is most disingenuous to even make the comparison, all pandemics are different.
Here is some more data for you
https://youtu.be/PuZ0WmC8uP0

Tony

This pandemic will cost jobs, money and lives. There is no alternative. So, we have to pick a blend of the three options.

Everyone will have a different combination though, but all of Europe is in lockdown and almost all countries are trying to minimise their death rates. It’s not their politicians or scientists’ fault though. They are all just trying to make the best of an impossible job. So, if you want someone to blame, then write to China and stop buying their products because they are the real culprits of this crisis.

For the record I worked in the private sector all my life until I was elected last year. I don't have a pension and I am not financially immune to anything. My house sale collapsed during lockdown and two immediate family members had life threatening illnesses as well, so I have experienced plenty of hardships from this pandemic too.

During my life I have been made reductant multiple times, many due to company relocations and lived through bad recessions too. Interest rates in the 1980’s were 14.5% vs todays 0.5%. Unemployment was 12% vs todays 4.75% and my wife and I slept on a mattress on the floor for two years because we couldn't afford a proper bed and pay the mortgage. When my company relocated to Swindon and I lost my job, the recruitment day for the 30 positions they had attracted a queue of people that stretched for half a mile outside the Job Centre. A picture of it even made the front page of a daily newspaper, the now defunct Today.

Therefore, I know what many people are going through, the worry of financial hardship and the struggle through high unemployment. But I also know those dark times passed, the economy recovered and my career and prosperity returned with it.

And when it did, my parents and grandparents were alive to share those good times with me. Something for which I am eternally grateful. Therefore, I don’t want their generation to be needlessly sacrificed because some refuse to see beyond their immediate self-interest.

So I make no apology for speaking up for our vulnerable, for encouraging people to stick to the rules and for doing all that I can to keep people safe.

Mark Goldsmith
Cheshire East & Wilmslow Town Council
Residents of Wilmslow

Mark thanks for the response and I wholeheartedly agree with your comments re China.

The reason I have an issue with lockdowns is that they have never before been implemented on a national basis. The WHOA guidelines on handling pandemics advises against lockdowns our own pandemic preparedness guidelines (slightly amended after the swine flu pandemic of 2009 ) does not mention national lockdown. China itself locks down regularly for events like these and Wuhan province locked down very forcefully in January (after the damage to the rest of the world was done, and after officials lied). Bergamo in n. Italy followed suit and then like a stack of cascading dominoes other countries copied their draconian actions for the want of any effective policies.
Everyone copied China with their awful Government. Well they shouldn't have, it was Boris not wishing to be left out and a pathetic herd response. Spain had a very draconian lockdown in Spring and it merely held back the virus in order for it to flourish again post lockdown. Spanish have been wearing masks since May to
little avail according to their Covid figures.
We cannot sustain lockdowns and partial opening up as it is an unforgiving cycle.
The country will descend into starvation and civil war after a few more lockdowns and Covid will be the least of our worries.

Won't get to that Tony. Boris has finally woken up to the fact that even those on Conservative Home his own key member voters are not on board with any further Lockdowns - hence all the MSM nonsense about the Pfizer vaccine to turn down the noise on the dubious and doubtful second lockdown.

Don't even get me started on that vaccine announcement utter drivel. So many unanswered questions. And after when we could have, should have, gone for initial herd immunity.

Hi Kathryn,

Boris is a clever guy if he can coerce an American Pharma Giant into timing their announcement about vaccine discovery to take the heat out of his second lockdown.

What was it about the announcement of a long-awaited, life-saving, freedom-giving vaccine that you felt was utter drivel?

How many of your family and friends would you sacrifice in order to pursue your "vision" of freedom by herd immunity?

Just asking.

Let google be your friend Alan.
When I said MSM nonsense. I meant that they, the media nor the government, did not state that the Pfizer vaccine is designed to reduce symptoms of the disease and that it is not known whether it will reduce symptoms of severe disease or death. Or whether it will be able to prevent transmission of the disease from those not displaying any symptoms. It is not known how long it will give immunity for or to whom. That the trial continues and the vaccine's safety has still to be proven. That some could be used, if it is licensed, but alongside the other measures already in use well into the Autumn 2021 not the 'back to normal' that those headlines shrieked by Spring. The only hard evidenced bit was that storing it below -70 was going to be a logistics nightmare but I am sure the NHS will have no problem with that...... !
And if you do not believe that the timing and phrasing of those headlines came out of Downing Street then you are a fool my friend.

Mark, not sure why you think China is to blame for the pandemic. Perhaps you could explain your comments?

I take it Keith that you mean that the World Health Organisation continues to look for a definitive answer in China to that theory ? But it is looking in China.

Or are we talking about bats and pangolins being the responsible party?And both exist in other parts of the world where SARS virus's have erupted.

And that a similar SARS virus was found in water samples in Brazil as long ago as August 2019 and also found in sewage in Italy in October 2019.

What can be said with some confidence is that China did not close its borders until months after the first known human transmission case there which may have been as early as October 2019 and that they did not acknowledge human to human transmission from November 2019 until March 2020 thus not alerting the rest of the world to the very high level of threat that was to come. Was it an accident waiting to happen or gross human negligence - my guess we will never be certain.

have none of you clocked what is happening CHINA HAS WON YES WON THE WORLD WAR without even firing a single shot killing thousands of people around the world WHAT do we do about it ??????? NOTHING they should be made to pay in some way for this pandemic the government does nothing to retaliate for this mess

??????

Calm Down John it's only a pandemic. ( by kind permission of Michael Winner )

Perhaps mark can go on a fact finding missing for a few weeks, and claim all the expenses, like all other politicians

Dear Wilmslow
As an avid reader of wilmslow news and from an Old Wilmslow family i found the remarks of Mark Russel unfounded about Germany. Perhaps he needs reminding that it was the NAZI,s who call the shots on WW2 and living in a NATO Country (FRG) and being married to a to German lady for 59 years and served in a Half German Regiment for 37 years The Rifle Brigade (Prince Alberts of Saxon Coburghs own Regiment) it is time to stop making such remarks. With COFID we jshould be united against the perprators of this desease. Perhaps a walk down to Bollyn Gardens and see the names on the memorial.